Full Interview Transcript

“It is another world completely and is the one thing that I would say for anyone that wants to enter into the field, it is not a 9 to 5, it’s more like a 5 to 7 or a 5 to 9”.

Dan: I grew up, really, my formative years where in New York City, so, Brooklyn to Long Island, New york, so, those where my formative years

Alejandro: You grew up in brooklyn first, till how old?

Dan: So, pretty much from age 3 to 11 years old and from 11 to 18 I was in Rockville Center.

Alejandro: Wow! That’s a big change

Dan: Yeah, and you know what? Completely … just an awesome transition, the complete change in culture I think is just invaluable from my own experience, its about meeting people and learning about life, it was really instrumental for me even to like, just seeing the world and being to get to certain positions, I had a lot of great people in my life in Rockville Center and also in Brooklyn

Alejandro: Let’s get to that, I was gonna ask, how big was the family?

Dan: Big, big, family, 8 aunts, most of which, I mean if you know it like, if you’re familiar with haitian families … they are large families and it’s never surprising if like, all aunts are within a mile proximity of each other, it’s not like, when I going down to like, Florida … All of my aunts live blocks away from each other. 6 women in my life who were just awesome

Alejandro: Was this already second generation, or it was first generation when they came?

Dan: No, no. So I’m first generation American. All of them, my grandfather, and this is a story that’s been told many many times, my father prided himself of education and my grandfather used to say “Pride yourselves in education” and really lived with those values and not only my mother but, all my aunts, so… there were not a lot of options when you are in Haiti, either you go to engineering school, become a lawyer or you go into medical school. And everyone, my aunts, my mom… she went to med school, all of my aunts went into the medical field, nurses all throughout. It’s strange that you can have a memory that young but I remember, have some vivid memories …

Alejandro: That happens when you go through a big change. I remember when I moved from Colombia to New York and I have random memories that people is like “how do remember the colour…”

Dan: Yeah, exactly. We had a family dog, and I remember this toy car that I used to bring around with me. It’s so funny that I can, but I do have those memories

Alejandro: Was it transformer?

Dan: You know what, I think it was Nightrider

Alejandro: Nice

Dan: Remember that show?

Alejandro: Of course, it’s still showing in Colombia (laughs)

Dan: David Hasselhoff? (laughs)

Alejandro: Yeah, absolutely, I loved Nightrider

Dan: Yeah exactly, so I think it was a Nightrider car.

Alejandro: Nightrider, Ninja Turtles was a big one. I had a lot of Ninja Turtles things. Yeah, in Colombia everything is like, at that point everything is like 20 years back, so, that’s why I can relate to people from like, the 50’s and like, the 40’s, and I sound like the people from the 40’s, I’m like “it’s not like it used to be” people are like “you are 30 what a hell is wrong with you” (laughs)

Dan: (laughs) it makes you very wordly if anything, so I’m sure you can interject in any kind of conversation

Alejandro: With my brothers we crack up because we find a lot of things in common with people that are like, you know, 30 years, 40 years older than us. So everyone, you mention, your mom was studying already, getting a residency, so this role you have been introduced to, this role of heath, where did this all began, where did this passion? Because by the time I met you in College, it was super clear, I had never seen someone so determined and so passionate about something, it was so refreshing

Dan: oh man

Alejandro: Yeah! You were, everyone was like “what’s up, what’s going on” and in 2 seconds I knew about everything that you were excited about…

Dan: That’s awesome to hear

Alejandro: Yeah, you remember my roomate Dany?

Dan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Danny Kim(last name)

Alejandro: We were talking about life and he was like, “wanna watch Naruto”?, you know, like a cartoon. And I was like, we need to change our lives! and he’s like “whatever dude”

Dan: Before I say anything, I gotta say, first of all … it is so awesome, you’re talking about refreshing, like, you view and the positivity coming from you has not changed one bit and it’s always a breath of fresh air, you’re probably the most affable person that I’ve ever met.

Alejandro: Oh, I appreciate that! But going back to the question, the inspiration, when did this happen?

Dan: The first time I became obsessed with nutrition, I would’ve been like 12 years old and just being infatuated with the food pyramid and really sort of embody all of the data and the education that was provided then, it’s changed significantly since then, but …

Alejandro: I think back then they said candy was like the healthiest thing (laughs) and it was promoted by New York State

Dan: Exactly, grains were laying in bed with pretty much half organizations. There is a relationship between health and sports, which is a significant part of my life, in my upbringing, wrestling in particular, the sport was tremendous and the wrestling coaches that I had … once I saw those parallels between those 2 things and that there was a huga association between success and how well you focused on those aspects, I was hooked. Yeah I already knew that I was interested and I played football, I wrestled and I ran track. I was… you know you have to make weight for wrestling and wrestling was just conditioning on top of conditioning and I mean, more conditioning than the other sports that I was with, in and you had to make the whole aspect of getting a young adolescent to figure out that in order for him to step on the mat, be conscious of his body composition, that’s huge. There are some other sports that you just go out and play, sometimes weight is not even a consideration, but the first thing in order for you to compete, you have to acknowledge the fact that hey, I gotta wrestle somebody else who is my weight and then you start realizing…

Alejandro: Weight is a huge deal

Dan: Huge, almost to a fault

Alejandro: You think they’re 250 and somehow they go on the scale and like, “140!” and you’re like “WHAT? this is lying, that’s impossible!” (laughs) and then you have to wrestle with them. That’s like a formula, I remember my friend did wrestling and it’s so extreme right? You would lose tons of water weight and it’s like, almost 20 pounds and “I’m perfectly fine, and he would like talk like with a lisp that he didn’t have before”. You should probably not be doing that (laughs) I don’t know anything about heath but, you should probably stay away from that.

Dan: he would fall asleep in the middle of the conversation and then wake up… yeah that’s often times the steroids.

Alejandro: Oh so, it makes sense, that was your introduction to learning about nutrition and all about it…

Dan: I took these tests, these quizzes in BU, I swear, BU is like the the number one school each and every single time, I must have taken it like 4 times, and I remember the 4th time everyone was like yeah, BU and I was like, alright, I gotta check out this Boston University.

Alejandro: What do you mean you took a test 4 times?

Dan: So I took a test with my guidance counselor and they would ask questions like, how big of a school you want, what major do you want to study, do you want to be in an urban environment, do you want like a campus … it must have been between 20 to 50 question and they would give you the top schools that you might be interested in.

Alejandro: Oh, now I get it, and BU kept popping up

Dan: BU, NYU, Georgetown, but BU was usually the #1 or #2 school that was indicated, so I went there but the biggest factor that played into was the fact that they had exercise science, at the time they had human physiology and exercise science track for program and I found out by the age, I can’t remember the age, 12 – 14 or so, that you could study exercise, once I saw that I was like well, i’m doing that

Alejandro: I’m glad I didn’t have to wrestle you man, that’s scary, you knew too much at such a young age. What was it about that class, exercise, was that a very unique program compared to the other programs that were out there?

Dan: The thing is that I would have the opportunity to pacify my parents a little bit, they were like “we want you to go to med school”, so BU offered an opportunity to study exercise science and do pre-med at the same time, so I went in with that goal in mind and it made it that much easier, so once I saw that, I went in to exercise science.

Alejandro: So now you enter to BU, and this is where our paths cross, I don’t know if you remember this but , this is when I… I don’t know if this was the first time that we met, or might have been the second or third time, that I asked you to box, do you remember boxing with me?

Dan: OH MY GOD YEAH!

Alejandro: I don’t know what a hell was wrong with my confidence, because I must have been the cockiest guy, cause you were huge! And I was like, “hey”, I asked around and …

Dan: We went to the roof and started boxing!

Alejandro: Yeah we went to the roof remember that? (laughs) I was just cracking up, I remember I asked a couple of guys, I had the gloves and everything, remember?

Dan: Yeah, I think it became a thing after that, I remember around campus like, “I’m gonna go box it up at Alex’s”. Tommy used to come, you remember Tommy?

Alejandro: Yes! It became a fight club!

Dan: Yes! There were stories, there would be like … “there’s a hole in Alex’s room now, because of fight club”. This is like, I’m bringing people in and they were like “yeah, we’re gonna stop at Alex’s now, before we go out”

Alejandro: That is so sad, you would do that, and go out, nothing would happen and then you would come back and it was a deadly recipe after drinks like “who wants to box?”. By the way, we filmed that and to this day I know a couple of people have that. Hopefully I don’t run for politics in the future because it might bite me in the ass.

Dan: You never know these days, it might …

Alejandro: Yeah, like “we need a tough man”… While you were studying in BU did you already have a clear track of what profession and where this would lead?

Dan: BU is awesome in a way that they offered a tremendous amount of resources, you just had to go and take advantage, there was not one of those where people offered them to you, you just had to go and ask, you had to be vigilant and ask, and there was this renowned strength coach, who ended up becoming a huge mentor for me, his name was Mike Boyle and he was actually the strength coach for Boston University at the time the BU hockey team, but before then, I had the opportunity to be introduced to, just through the exercise science track, they required to do these internships, and I went down and the moment I walked in, his name was Glenn Harris, he is another big influence in terms of me having that interest, and I walk in there and within minutes, I remember I said “this is what I’m gonna do”. I mean I walk in there and there’s music playing, people throwing weights around, but not in the sense that it was disorganized, it was organized…

Alejandro: There was a process.

Dan: Yeah, there was purpose to the lifting, it was, I don’t wanna say, for lack of a better term, military like, not really the word I wanna use because I don’t want to give it that escence, but there was a goal in mind, there was a purpose in mind, things were organized, there was a thought behind the program, and there was coaching. And I loved it, that aspect, I loved the fact that we could create these programs that required tremendous understanding of science, tremendous understanding of people and the opportunity to help teach individuals how to execute and also learn about the body, that was huge, it was tremendous.

Alejandro: With Mike Boyle, he was the first one, in terms of introducing you to …

Dan: Actually Glenn Harrison and Vick Brown were the first two people

Alejandro: and that was hockey?

Dan: When I entered it was multi-sports, so, basketball, soccer, wrestling, track … and then, after that internship I had the opportunity with Mike, but I heard that Mike was affiliated with BU at the time so, that was huge for me.

Alejandro: Where there any lessons from that experience of being with them, once they show you and you realize this is your calling, this is what you wanna do, are there certain things that still are fresh in your mind from teachings or things they have shared with you?

Dan: There is, I mean, there’s like, the philosophy … strengthening and conditioning … there are a lot of philosophies out there, what’s the best way … what’s the effective way to train your athlete and how to train multiple athletes. So the philosophy within BU is something that is very engrained in how I teach athletes now.

Alejandro: Really?

Dan: Yeah, progression oriented, focusing on movements from the ground up, and emphasis on multi-lifting, free weights, platform – based or central program design, a lot of things were instilled there, there are a lot of aspects that I saw from the beginning, that I still like to emphasize with my athletes now.

Alejandro: What happened after BU?

Dan: Then I interned … I worked as a personal trainer, I worked 2 jobs as a personal trainer in Boston, and then I also interned with Mike Boyle, and I spent some time learning under him, working at a fitness facility which at the time was in Winchester Massachusetts and it was like a private sector work and it was awesome. We were working with the pro-guys, pro college hockey, some NFL guys, and it was my first exposure to truth and private sectorß work. So I had been working in at the collegiate level, now the private sector. So we got the time to see, not only great coaching, but just awesome philosophy behind his program design and just really well executed lifts, group training and awesome business plan that he had chosen. It was fun, and my peers, they guys I was interning with, they were, sometimes you find yourself like, really learning a lot from those guys as well, and they were truly, truly awesome in providing good resources for me to be able to learn.

Alejandro: And after that, what happened?

Dan: After that experience I remember talking to Mike and asking “what’s the next step here”, I’m trying to figure out what would be the next opportunity for me, and he said, straight up like, you gotta go to grad school, he said, “if you wanna get into the business of strengthening and conditioning, you have to enter a reputable program, you have to go to springfield college. He recommended springfield college to me, so I spent a year working as … I worked in New York, I went back to New York, and started preparing to go to grad school.

Alejandro: So all the tests and…

Dan: Yeah I got prepared to go to grad school and I got into Springfield the following year and it was awesome, you know.

Alejandro: And there were no other options, in your head was just springfield?

Dan: Yeah, it’s funny, so, it was springfield and that year, when I was going through the application process, I knew it was Springfield that I wanted to go to, but there was another program up in Boston, that I can’t remember, but just in case Springfield wasn’t what I wanted to get into. But I remember at the time I said, I might wanna consider physical therapy as well, so I did some internships going to physical therapy. Now, it wasn’t something that I was particularly interested in, I found myself more drawn to strength conditioning so that confirmed that it was the route I wanted to get into, because it was going to be like a solid investment for me to go into Springfield again.

Alejandro: After springfield, what happened?

Dan: So, my advisor calls me and he says, “I got an opportunity for you, but it may require you to leave the Springfield program” and I’m thinking, I’m just getting here, doing really well with the program, I’m developing this awesome relationships, and at the time for me, my focus was going to either private sector or getting into basketball, but she recommended that interview with this football program, the NFL football program with the Buffalo’s. So I went through the interview process and they selected me for this opportunity, so I had a huge choice to make, because I wasn’t done with the Springfield program, I was about a year into it and I still had one year left, so it was something that I had actually discussed with my family, they were very much centered into finishing school and pride themselves on education above all else, so, they said “we’d like for you to focus on school, but if this is an opportunity that’s not gonna happen, it’s rare, then you should take advantage of it”, so, sure enough I did.

Alejandro: And it was time-sensitive? In the sense that, “Now is the time” or. Was it like, I can finish studying and re-apply?

Dan: The door of opportunity was very rare, very rare to get into the business and it is time-sensitive, because there is something that has to be done everyday throughout the season and once you get into it you start understanding the demands, so, even if you’re well prepared, even if you have these accolades, it’s still very difficult to get into the business.

Alejandro: That’s amazing, you’ve had some awesome counsellors. I’m trying to think where the hell were my counsellors (laughs)

Dan: (laughs) Yeah, you go from one person to the next and …

Alejandro: We’ll obviously the saw something in you and they gave you really good advice, and you took the chance, that’s a big leap, it sounds like it wasn’t anything but that’s a huge leap. So you did that, how was that? You had a meeting with somebody? Or how did that work?

Dan: Yeah, I had 3 phone interviews, but that was it. Like, it was an entry level position, so it wasn’t like … If it was for an actual position it would have been different. But it came out from a recommendation the Bulls had contacted Springfield College, I think it was me and someone else, we were recommended for the position and then from there on, they interviewed the three of us and i had the opportunity, based on my interview.

Alejandro: And what was the role?

Dan: The role was strengthening conditioning assistant and pretty much assisting the strength coach with whatever duty and at the time it was primarily nutrition based, so focusing on all the nutrition work, and that’s the cool thing about it, in NFL strengthening and conditioning there is a strength coach by the name of Rusty Jones, who worked for the Bulls for a very long period of time and he really set the stage for nutrition in the NFL, he really started a great culture, and he did it in buffalo, so they had a lot of respect for providing whatever help, whatever resource for delivering good nutrition in Buffalo, so, they gave me that role, they let me focus on that and I was able to have full control over it, so it was an awesome role.

Alejandro: I feel like that’s our sweet spot, I remember in College every time you saw me, I tried to avoid you in the cafeteria, cause I was like “Dan is gonna notice that I’m eating shit”

Dan: (laughs) you amongst, you amongst, yeah

Alejandro: I’m like hey Dan look! It’s fruits, -“ You know how much sugar…?” – I was like, “omg, he’s right, I’m still gonna eat this grapefruit”. But you were so good I remember that was something you really loved, so this was perfect!

Dan: Truthfully, yeah, an awesome role for me, and also people in terms of the culture there, the family-centered organization, it was just a great place to be in terms of understanding family and also business, so that was huge. From the ticket sales guy, everyone was at the same level and working towards a common cause.

Alejandro: Can you give us a rundown of what life looks like for someone working in strength and conditioning in the NFL, for, let’s take for instance, for the Bulls, how did that look like?

Dan: It’s awesome because it is another world, for the first thing is, like, the time, when the day starts, for us, we can have meetings starting at 6am, even earlier and off season is not unusual for us to start a meeting at 5am.

Alejandro: and people take naps at noon or?

Dan: (laughs) No, no. We go at it …

Alejandro: “Coach I have one question, if possible… at noon time”

Dan: Yeah they put in tremendous effort, strength coaches, athletic trainers, it is another world completely and if there is one thing I would say, for anyone that wants to enter into the field, it is not a 9 to 5, it’s more like a 5 to 7 or a 5 to 9, you’re always on, even off season, coaches, athletic trainers and strength coaches, they understand there is an element in your life … it completely revolves around football and around your athletes as well, so that’s the biggest thing I would say.

Alejandro: What are the perks? You have your own planes?

Dan: You know, now … the teams mostly use charter flights, that’s changing now, so I think there is one team now that has their own plane, it’s New England, New England has their own plane now, they recently purchased.

Alejandro: I didn’t know that… in NBA is common, there’s a number of teams in the NBA that have their own jets… interesting… because NFL is humongous, such a huge enterprise.

Dan: I’m sure they’re probably gonna end up getting into that as the business grows and other teams are gonna follow on that same type of model probably.

Alejandro: More Super Bowls.

Dan: You know, every culture is gonna be different, so some people are gonna figure out a different way, but yeah, that is definitely a perk, to travel.

Alejandro: So everybody goes into the plane and most seats … I’m guessing, cause these guys are big! I’m guessing most seats are business and first class.

Dan: Yeah for sure, you definitely have that.

Alejandro: Which means, you have a bed, for us normal folks, that’s like “man! That’s a king size bed!”, so that’s pretty cool, that’s how you travel. Do you do the bus travel?

Dan: It’s rare that we have a bus travel, I have not experienced that, we have not had a team that’s in close proximity for us to travel by bus, but I’m sure it’s not unusual if the teams are right down the street from one another, I can’t imagine the Giants and the Jets flying (laughs)

Alejandro: So you have the comfortable transportation, food, tons of food and I’m guessing all of it is healthy.

Dan: On the planes too, on the planes

Alejandro: Delicious

Dan: Hour after hour they are offering.

Alejandro: And I’m guessing these guys have an appetite

Dan: Oh yeah, absolutely, you got to keep the calories up, it’s performance eating you know, so…

Alejandro: Wow! Can I eat that?

Dan: (laughs) it’s performance eating

Alejandro: Alright so, there’s food, there’s travel, I mean, you get front row seats (laughs) you’re right there watching every game and you’re a football player… did you have a team growing up or no?

Dan: I had many teams and I was more… I was a big fan of Deion Sanders, Warren Moon I was a big fan of, so I had a lot of different players that I remember watching as I grew up, and it changed a lot, I was a Dolphins fan, then I went to Giants, because I lived in New York, so I rooted for the areas that I lived in for sure.

Alejandro: You brought the rat tail hairstyle? I don’t know if that’s how it’s called, you made it cool, at least for the foreigners. Barry Sanders, Joe Montana, that was a big one, I remember… I think it was Joe Montana that introduced… no Barry Sanders was the one that got me interested in football, because soccer is a huge deal anywhere else, so that one, when they would say they have to stop a game because they thought he had a … everyone was complaining because he put something on his jersey, because nobody could grab him … yeah that guys is legendary. What’s a misconception of people when they think of strength and conditioning or when they think of the sport itself, how these athletes, what they do most of the time of the day?

Dan: One of the biggest things that I want people to realize about some of these players is that they are very talented individuals, it’s very often that I get the chance, and I meet these people and I think ”It’s not just football that is a talent for them, sometimes it just happens that they chose football, they are musicians, but sometimes football it’s just a part of what they do, and it’s interesting, they chose it and they are very good at it, but it doesn’t necessarily means that there aren’t other talents that they have. I remember several times, players going out and having the opportunity to do a talent show and they are playing music, like, base and I’m thinking to myself “where do they have all this time to be able to do these things”, and then you realize like, no, this is just part of this individual who is just a talented football player, who happens to be talented in football but has other talents as well. There is one particular athlete who is with us now and he served as a ranger in the army, taking classes at Carnegie Mellon, this guy by the name Allen Villanueva.

Alejandro: A latino? We got a latino in there?

Dan: He is a Spaniard, and yeah you see them in a completely different way

Alejandro: Do you have time to party? You know the crazy… Now that you’re telling me all of these hours, and how insanely in shape they are.

Dan: During the off season they can choose, during the season it’s definitely an opportunity to do it and go out… but if you think about the work they put into, preparation for football, people talk about how hard it is to win a game, you have to give a lot of credit, the game is so complex, so difficult, it’s such a challenging sport with multiple talented individuals and the sacrifices that are needed in order to be successful at the sport, you step away from that more often than so… you don’t see as much as the lavish lifestyle, you see guys like James Harrison coming in the morning at 5am or 6am to get his lifting, and you see guys and that’s just recently, quarterbacks start coming in early on to get their lifts so they have time to study throughout the day.

Alejandro: What excites you most about what you do?

Dan: Oh man, I don’t know that I can answer that in just one. I think I have the opportunity to do something that I myself am very passionate about and I can constantly be part on a regular basis, so, to answer that is to say many things, it’s my love for exercise and my love for interacting with individuals, my love for coaching and teaching, educating individuals. It’s my love for being creative and producing artwork with an understanding of science.

Alejandro: I read an article that you just wrote and I thought it was fascinating. You are given a huge group of people and there is a very clear time limit, and your objective is get them to their best of their abilities, what is usually the main objective?

Dan: Is to improve all the factors that are under the realm of movement and performance, so, whether that is mobility, strength, flexibility, whether is conditioning, cardiovascular performance, aerobic conditioning, all these factors are maximizing an individual’s potential

Alejandro: That sounds like a lot of work… and then you have, like a clock ticking. Can you share a bit of what you shared in that article?

Dan: Every strength coach has to deal with it and I think it’s becoming more and more challenging now because your time is being taken away from, because in sports people become more complex and you have this large number of athletes you have a limited amount of time, you have to assess them, so, again understand the athlete, you can’t understand a person that you have not have spent so much time with and then try to provide them a program that fits them, and if you spend time with a person every day it’s gonna be a challenge , even if you have one person, let alone 90 individuals and you have a group of them within a two-hour window because the other two hours have to be dedicated to stuff on the field and in terms of learning formations and learning the art of football

Alejandro: So, it’s 2 hours?

Dan: During the off season it’s 4 hours of limited work, 4 hours are work that you can have with an athlete, and within the facility.

Alejandro: And during season?

Dan: During the season I don’t know if there is a limit of time…

Alejandro: You have more flexibility

Dan: There’s definitely a lot more flexibility

Alejandro: For someone that’s going in this field and has to beat up the other 45.000 certified strength and conditioning specialists … there’s only 32 of you…

Dan: Right

Alejandro: That’s insane Dan, that’s incredible!

Dan: Only 34 NFL teams

Alejandro: and only 32 Dans, that’s how I see it. Is there any type of medium that you use to keep up with very cool news that’s related to strength and conditioning, is there something that you prefer and tha tyou always enjoy catching up with?

Dan: There are resources available, certainly, I’m gonna be a little byas, strenghtcoach.com, good information to help develop, talk about topics in the strength and conditioning field, so that’s gonna be a valuable asset and just education in general, so if you’re going, make sure you focus on developing your understanding through other strength coaches and also gaining an understanding outside of the field through masters work, Phd work, things of that nature.

Alejandro: What’s the next objective, let’s say 5 years from now.

Dan: I’m actually … so I’m in a Phd program now, so I’m hoping I’m done with my Phd in 5 years, so after that, then I got a little side business that I’d like to see develop. I developed a performance tool, it’s called the “Raddlestick”

Alejandro: I already like it, I want it without even knowing what it is, sounds like you could murder someone with that thing

Dan: (laughs) you might be able to, actually. I developed it this past season, I worked with some athletes, I actually created a website, it’s called theraddlestick.com, its a miofascial … a massage tool that it is one of the only tools that I know of that applies both compression and traction at the same time, so you’re talking about something you can’t even do with your own hands, I guess you can do it with your hands but with other tools it’s very difficult, so you can apply compression but you can’t get traction at the same time.

Alejandro: So what’s the benefit?

Dan: Within the field of strength conditioning and performance conditioning you have something that’s called the fascia, you got miofascia, so, all around your body you have fascia, tissue that is connected to other tissue, muscle connected to tendon and also other connective tissue

Alejandro: I got fascia

Dan: You git fascia all over, you have superficial fascia, deep fascia and funny enough there is a lot of research that is just being developed regarding fascia, it’s still not well understood, but we know that there is a connective … an importance towards fascia and its ability to communicate from the ground up and manipulating fascia has become incredibly important for the improvement of movement, so there’s various tools, techniques that are being used to manipulate fascia and one of which is stick rollers, foam rollers and the tool that I’ve just created and I used it with all of my athletes last year when we were traveling from team to team, and they loved it. And I’d like to see it being more utilized within the industry because there’s truthfully a benefit to it, so the opportunity to be able to see it grow it’s been awesome.

Alejandro: that’s raddlesnake.com?

Dan: theraddlestick.com

Alejandro: I think I just sent a bunch of people to another site (laughs)… what is it? like NR17?

Dan: heraddlestick.com